Kingdom Building: Leadership - with Scott Nary

I was so honored to sit with my friend and mentor, Scott Nary, to discuss leadership and kingdom building. Scott and Marcy Nary are founders of 420Fire International and strong prophetic voices charged with training and equipping the body of Christ to discern, follow, and obey the voice of the Lord for themselves. You can learn more about their ministry at 420fire.org

We sit down with Scott in this episode to talk about why leadership always includes turbulence, and why influence only grows through real investment, not titles or platforms. 

We unpack submission, repentance, and character so we can lead from maturity instead of insecurity and self-focus. 

Some points:
• leadership is defined as influence built through investment 
• turbulence as a normal sign of growth and pressure 
• time, words and money as revealers of what matters 
• dangers of theory without experience and performance without Spirit 
• correction as love, and why leaders trigger bruises to heal them 
• insecurity and self-focus as drivers of offence and blame 
• authority through submission, not through a title 
• discipline and repentance as ongoing practices for leaders 
• biblical leadership qualifications from 1 Timothy 3 
• frustration as a signal for an upgrade and missed opportunities

If you are called to minister and steward a call from God, this episode is for you!

Transcript

Welcome And Why Leadership Matters

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey guys, welcome to Vine Life. This is Gina, and I have my friend and mentor Scott and Neri with me today, and we are gonna talk about leadership. And so, even though I believe everybody who would listen to me already knows who you are, if you if you could just give a quick brief introduction for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

A quick brief introduction. Okay. Well, I am a husband, a father, I am a leader, minister, been in ministry for 34 years. Dang. 34 years. I've been an entrepreneur, owned multiple businesses. I've worked in professional sports. I worked in the National Football League, National Hockey League, National Basketball Association, NASCAR. I've traveled the world. I've preached to thousands of people. I've seen countless miracles. Also, one of the coolest things I ever did is I owned my own food court restaurant in a mall. So, and I sold subs and sandwiches. But I've been doing that, you know, like that's my whole story is kind of crazy. But with that said, you know, we all live here now in uh West by God, Virginia. West by God. West by God. And uh we steward a ministry that's called 420 Fire International, it's based on 1 Corinthians 420. The kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. So that's what uh that's what that's a little bit about me, but I could be here all day doing this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

So I know but really what we were wanting to talk about was leadership, though. I'm doing this whole series on kingdom building, and I asked Scott recently if he would come on and share just specifically about leadership and what he's seeing, what the Lord's got his thumb on with leadership, because you know, we've had a lot of um turbulence, is that a good word? With leadership right now, and um, you know, that we're just seeing across the board. And so I really wanted to kind of get catch the father's heart for those who are called to leadership, those who are already leaders, and those who are maybe running from leadership or not stewarding it well. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

That's that, you know, that's a great introduction. One of the things you just said, leadership has turbulence. Now, the thing is about turbulence, I fly a lot. Turbulence occurs in the plane when hot air hits cold air. So it's inevitable, hot and cold. The thing is, if it was lukewarm.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Smooth sailing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

But the thing is, that's the thing is the Lord says, I'll spit you out of my mouth if you're lukewarm. So in essence, God is saying, I want you to be hot or cold. Right. So he's saying, if you're going to follow me, you will endure some level of turbulence. Or turbulence could be denoted as being up and down situations. Uh your emotions feel a certain way, your situation goes up and down. But leadership is in its rudimentary form to me, Gina, is this leadership is influence.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

And influence can only occur through a level of investment. And what I mean by that is because we have quote unquote TikTok influencers, Instagram, Instagram influencers. They're called influencers because they're

Turbulence Is Part Of Calling

SPEAKER_00 3:10

just they're popular.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

But a true influencer actually creates momentum and change in culture.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Yes. You know, the Lord told me one time he was like, if because I was fussing about, you know, my stuff not being seen or having that conversation with the Lord of the algorithm is against me. And the Lord said, you know, if if your influence can be hindered by social media, you don't really have any.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

And I was like, oh, you talk about, you know, immediately like, oh, because all of that on the social media and those platforms and all that kind of stuff, there's a level of truth to it, but but it's it's shallow.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

That's true. I mean, think about it, like, you know, when I first started in leadership, I didn't even know that I was a leader.

unknown 3:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Okay, everybody's a leader to some capacity. If you have a pet, you're a leader.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Okay, so you're leading something. But years ago when I started, we didn't have social media. And so the only way we had a level of influence was how we invested our time. Um, you know, you've heard me say this before. What denotes important things in our lives are three things. What's important will be revealed by our time, our words, and our money. And where we speed our time is when we spend our time is what we feed our mind. And if you're going to be an influencer of people in God's way, you spend your time with the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

And then your words, that means you actually you steward the very words you speak. And that's one thing I'm I'm quite thankful for because when I first got out of Bible college, I got placed into a ministry that was word and faith. Some people don't believe in that, but I can tell you there was a lot of truth to that. But one of the things it taught me is my words have power. So for the longest time, I did everything for me formulatic. Formulatic, is that a word?

SPEAKER_01 5:08

I think it worked.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Okay, so I did everything with a formula, but formulas, a formula cannot sustain itself if it doesn't have the essence of the spirit on it.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

And so, but I learned how to quote the scripture, I learned how to speak the word, and then money is what you spend your resources on. So again, like this podcast, it costs resources for you. This stream yard, it costs resources. People don't realize these things cost money, right? But oftentimes, people who do not want to invest financially or do not want to invest in what's speaking the right thing, or do not invest their time with God, they look at people who do that and they they're extremely jealous.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

And uh, and what happens? God has a call for them, but they never fulfill it. You know? But leadership, you know, I said this earlier on a reel that I did. Leadership's a lot like swimming.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

You do not learn it by reading the book. You can't learn swimming. I mean, can imagine, imagine, okay, like we when you were a kid, all right, Gina, we're gonna take you out to the pool. Here's a book. I want you to read this.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Now jump in. That's how people do church. That is how so what happens, they they read a manual. All right, let's let's get the skills in our head.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

And they intellectually can understand it, but it's it's not real. It's not real.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Because it's not experiential.

SPEAKER_04 6:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

So people say, well, well, the truth will set you free. No, you have to know the truth. And truth not experienced is not truth.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

That's the truth. It's a theory.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

It's a theory.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

And a lot of people are walking around, it's theories.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

A bunch of theories.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Oh, yeah. I mean a bunch of theories, and that's why even on social media, and I'm don't get me wrong, I like social media. I use it.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

But I think one of the best things for social that one of the best things about social media is it gives people a platform.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

One of the worst things about social media is it gives people a platform.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

And what always strikes me is the people that watch the platforms, and especially the ones who um who don't have a foundation with the Lord in their own personal time, they seek prophetic words, they seek in a dopamine rush, they want somebody to pat them on the back. And a true leader, believe it or not, in my in my perspective, is someone who actually will challenge you, provoke you, still love you, but at the same token, they're not gonna coddle you.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

No, no, no, and they're gonna they're gonna come against you because it is a challenging thing. And it's it's like with your your children, if you see your child doing something that's harmful, it's love that's gonna provoke you to to come in and and correct that, you know. But you have a whole group of people now who don't want the authority of the father in their lives. No, and so whenever they do have that voice of correction, they reject it and then they run and they, you know, cry about their wounds that they're not allowing the Lord to heal.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Right.

unknown 8:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

I I am convinced people want easy.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

They do. Well, and they want their emotions and they want to feel sorry for themselves and they want to, you know, they want to bask in the glory of of self. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

That's self-focus. I mean, we all deal with it from time to time. But I one of the things that I really, really believe that God is doing now in the church is the Lord is a uniter, but the Lord is also a divider. People don't realize that about God. God unites, God divides. I mean, think about it. The very His very name, when he was born in Bethlehem, the angels sang a song and they shouted out loud to the the shepherds in the field, peace on earth, goodwill to men. And then basically they were calling him the Prince of Peace.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

And isn't it kind of wild that Jesus was born to be the Prince of Peace, but yet he said in his own words in Matthew chapter 10, don't think that I came to bring peace, but a sword. I used to read that scripture thinking, man, that sounds kind of harsh.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

But that's the Lord. So the Lord, what he's doing now in the church in America, he's exposing the exposers.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

And so what happens anytime that we get in self-focus or self-absorption, we become insecure. Insecurity is wrong security exposed.

SPEAKER_05 9:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

And the more self-absorbed we get, what happens? Our carnal nature wants to find a flaw in somebody else to pick it out so they can take the pressure off of how they feel about themselves.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Right. And the thing is, though, is the Lord will even use that insecurity to free you from your wrong thought process, you know, from whatever mindset you're in, if you allow it. But whenever you were deflect it onto someone else and you make them the reason for your suffering in your mind, then you you thwart the whole process of God and you're stuck there with that log still coming out of your eye. Right. And and you're still blind.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Man, I tell you. Some of the most powerful leaders I've ever met in my life personally, they never corrected me in the wrong spirit.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

That that'll preach too.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Oh my gosh. It was it was like when they corrected me, it was desirable.

SPEAKER_05 10:50

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

It was like, thank you, thank you for that. Because it was never in the wrong spirit, and it never came across haughty, it never came across demeaning. Right. Because God's not going to demean you.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Right. He's not going to attack your identity.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

No, no. He's good. He's a good father, you know. And so what happens in the church right now, we're seeing the Lord reveal a lot of things. And I and I I was asking him just the other day, I said, Lord, what are you doing? He says, I'm raising up the real fathers and mothers. He says, Because there's not many of them. And I asked him, I said, Can you explain that? Because I like to ask him questions. And he said this he says, What you're seeing right now is you're seeing sons competing with sons and daughters competing with daughters because true fathers

Influence Requires Real Investment

SPEAKER_00 11:40

don't compete with sons and true mothers don't complete keep compete with daughters.

SPEAKER_05 11:43

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

And so what happens, you see this culture in the church, it's a self-absorption cult culture that always blames people for their own predicament.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

That's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

It is.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

I'm seeing it manifest in all areas in all arenas right now. Oh yeah. But you know, the church, the church is, I guess, the the picture of society, right? Like if it's if it's going on in the church, you best believe it's going on in the culture.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Oh, absolutely. Right. Well, the work creating it.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

And that's the thing, people, when they when they start looking what's happening in America, it's like, oh, America's going to hell in the handbasket. That's like that's the church's problem. Right. Because we're the door.

SPEAKER_05 12:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Because the Bible says the gates of hell will not prevent prevail against the church, right? So if we are the blocker, think about it. If we are the what's blocking the great falling away, the first place that the Lord will examine will be the church to make sure that we have the ability to withstand pressure.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

And that's what's happening. Lots of have you seen more pressure? No. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

It's been wild.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Oh yeah, it's nuts.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

It's been hard to to watch, especially, you know, if you do have a level of of hearing what the spirit is doing and just seeing how people are wise in their own opinions. Yeah. You know, how they're they're running to and fro trying to to get you know this and that, and and and it's all wrong.

SPEAKER_05 13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

And the whole purpose of all this is to to again bring the church to repentance. Right. Right. And and bring the individual into repentance because you have forsaken individually your own love, your first love. Like you like we can't get there as a church to where we're supposed to be if the individuals don't take accountability for their own faith life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Well they that's you called that out. Accountability is is crucial. So what one of the things that you notice a lot, a lot of people want the title of a leader.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

They don't know, then.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

They know. Well, they want the title. They want a title, but they don't want the responsibility. Right, right. And so, but the thing is, any person worth their salt has to go through crushing.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

You have to go through the crucible. I mean, I I I think it'd like even Luke 12, 48 says, to whom much is given, much is required. I think there's a lot of people that want much given without the much required.

SPEAKER_05 14:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

But the thing is, when you're going through the much required, it's hard. It's it's not easy. Now, God's yoke is easy, but the process is challenging. And so what I'm seeing in the in the church in America, I'm seeing a new prophetic movement rise. I'm seeing new prophets, I'm seeing the old pass away, like the like not the old that was right, the old that was wrong.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

And the old that was right is coming for the circle. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

So this is why I honestly believe God is whittling things down. He's getting people in smaller pockets, but it's it's kind of wild just how so many people get absolutely offended, been out of shape. And then, especially if they're a leader. Now, here's the one thing that one of my biggest pet peeves that I've learned, because I used to do this. My God, I used to do this. I used to do this when when I was uh young and dumb. All right. I don't know if anybody's ever been done that before, but I used to have to tell people, I'm the leader of this. Oh, yeah.

unknown 15:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I lead this, I'm leading this. You better listen to me.

SPEAKER_05 15:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Now, the reason I was doing that back then is because I was trying to legislate discipline by what my title was.

SPEAKER_05 15:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

You cannot legislate discipline. You can only inspire discipline. And so now I don't go around saying, hey, I'm a leader.

SPEAKER_05 15:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

I don't go around saying, hey, come follow me. I I don't say you better listen to me. I don't do that. So I've learned that a true leader who grows the maturity, because we don't we don't all start out. We start out, we we we're you got immature leaders, believe it or not. Yes, God will call an immature leader. He called Peter. He wasn't he looked at, but he was, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

I mean, James and John, well, they were immature, but so even us, my God, look at us, right? So I was leading things before I was processed, but and so God takes from glory to glory. But what happens, the more that I led, the more people got mad.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Right. I I have seen this for two.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Oh, you've seen it. And the thing is, what happens, it's it was part of the process, though. Right. You it's it's actually every leader has to go through a measure of persecutions by the very ones you know that you're leading. You know, everybody wants to talk about church hurt. I've been church hurt, you've been church hurt, yeah, and everybody wants to talk about spiritual abuse. Have you ever seen parking lot prophets on on social media always talking bad about the church? Yeah. Well, they're not in submission to anybody.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

No, they're in rebellion.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

They're complete rebellion, they're in witchcraft.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

And you can if you have if you truly, if you have discernment, you can pick it up. Oh yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Well, a lot of people just don't have it, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Well, a lot of people aren't looking for the truth, they're looking for a similar spirit. You know, they want to be, again, wise in their own opinion. So I'm gonna gravitate towards who makes me feel good about being right.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so I can tell you, like, as I grew in leadership, I grew in learning how to stay the course, focus on Christ, speak the word, teach, and then the hits would hit happen. But most uh spiritual abuse doesn't just happen from pastors to lay people, it happens from the lay people to the leaders. That's the one thing people don't want to talk about. Right. Because let's face it, well, there's more church hurt coming spiritual abuse. I was like, do you know what leaders go through? These people have no stinking clue, and this is why they never will lead.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Well, I mean, you you have a group of people who are who are watching Facebook Live and think that that counts as fellowship. So so they have no skin in the game, they have no understanding of the father's heart for his people because they they've not been in that that role, so they don't know what it means to feed someone that's biting you. Right, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah, one of the things that I'm learning, Gina, is so so this weekend I'm I'll be flying to Arizona and I'm preaching at at the Word Church in Payson, Arizona. Looking forward to that. Pastor Mark and Laura Henning, it's gonna be a great weekend. But when I go preach at a place, I carry a level of authority, I have my own gifting, but when I go and speak, and they've invited me, I can't have authority unless I submit to their authority.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Oh, speak on that.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Okay, yeah. So that this this is the thing that a lot of people don't realize. You cannot go to a church to correct it.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Right. Right. So you ever heard somebody say, God's calling me to go to this church so I can bring correction? No, you're full of it. You're full of it. Right. And and no, you're you're not, because you can't correct that which you do not love. You can't and the thing is, so I'm I when I go there and you've seen me do this, I let them know it's like I submit to your authority. That means the level of honor I give to their leadership, the Lord can flow through me then. And so, for instance, even even at our at our place here in West Virginia, we have a lot of gifted people, right? There's a lot of gifted people, but with all the gifted people, not everybody that's gifted is submitted. It's true.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

That's very true.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

It's true. So the proof of submission is to be submission. You're under the mission right. If you're under the mission, you're humble. And that means that you're quick to hear, slow to speak, and you just like you know, I was, and I'll probably read some scripture in a second, that talks about the God even gives qualifications for leaders in the scripture. But I can tell you, I didn't really realize I was flowing in real leadership until I went through my major process when I had my visitation with Jesus. So, you know, you've heard the story in 2016. I have a physical visitation with the Lord, changed my life, changed the whole trajectory of where I'm going. But what it did to me, it humbled me, but yet it was crazy, I wasn't completely set free from performance.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Well, yeah. Yeah. Because he he wants you to walk it out.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yes, he does. So we all want things done instantly. Yes, give it to me now.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Yes, I I'm guilty of that. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

But the thing is, if we if we if we get something, if we get everything taken care of now, it would it would wound us way too bad.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

And I am I'm I am absolutely convinced that a the more you grow in divine leadership, you know more of the ways of God than the acts of God. So you know his process. So if you know God's process, you'll look at somebody, they're going through it, and you can say, Hey, it's all right. You're gonna get through this. This is part of your process. Right. And then you just give them encouragement and say, Let's go, giddy up. And then they'll watch you as you take a hit.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

And then and you get hit by situations and

Experience Beats Theory Every Time

SPEAKER_00 21:20

people, and but then you you you know you might fall down, but bless God, you're gonna get back up. Yeah, and uh, I can't tell you how many times that we've had to do that over nine years.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Oh, I've seen it.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Oh yeah, it's been you know the thing is when you're going through it, right? I don't like it. I mean, who likes who likes going through the hit? Who like who likes to to go through the opinions of people? Who look, I don't want people to talk trash about me online. So this is like do it to others as you have them do it to you.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

So when I go on social media, there's so many people that if I was in my carnality, I could call out, right? Call out their sin. Could say all the things they're doing wrong, but the thing is that would be Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

So what I'm called to do then is to point the gold, release them, bless them, and then when you post and then when you share, bring edification to the people.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

I hope people are getting that because I'm seeing the opposite done. I'm seeing the people, oh well, I see this in you, so so you know, either you're unfit or I've got to fix it, or and and the the ones who are doing that don't even, number one, have a rule of their own spirit, so they don't have the authority to be able to do that. That's right anyway. But it's backwards than how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to call out the gold, and then you're supposed to, by example, lead.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

That's right. You cannot lead some someone if you're not doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

So you've you know, I've had this whole health transformation, you've seen me go through this, but I didn't tell everybody what all the Lord said. The first thing he said in December, he told me I was getting fat.

unknown 23:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

He told me I was getting fat. Look, but and I and I get that, but but I never this is the first time I'm releasing this. He says, Scott, how can you preach spiritual discipline if you're not physically disciplined? Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

And it convicted me. So again, if I'm walking around, a big old belly hanging out, right, and just and doing whatever, hey, you better tithe or you better pray and fast, but yet I can't even put my own flesh into subjection, then how can I be a leader? I'm not gonna follow somebody like that.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

You know, right? I can't do that. So what happens, the Lord convicts, and then transformation takes place as you obey the voice of God.

SPEAKER_05 23:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

This is no condemnation. We've all had to walk through our process. Right. I mean, I had to work on it because you know I was getting chunky, right? So that was my conviction.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah, so but the thing is, at the end of the day, if I, you know, I, you know, I could still prophesy and call out name words of knowledge and stuff, but in God's eye, he says you can't really you cannot teach people to be disciplined spiritually if you're refusing to be disciplined physically.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Well, and I love that you just brought up the fact that you the gifting's still there. I can still operate in all of the giftings and all that. And it just really speaks to the fact of, okay, well, is that all you want? Right, come on. Right? Do you do you want to stop at the giftings or do you want me?

SPEAKER_04 24:31

That's it. You know?

SPEAKER_02 24:32

That's it. And do you want to walk with the Lord where he really wants to go? Or are are we okay just just camping out and saying, oh no, this I don't have to cross the river. I don't have to cross Jordan. Like this land here is it seems nice to me.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

That's right. Oh, yeah. We I mean, we're we're suckers for for easy, easy convenience. I mean, we we're suckers for, and so so that's the thing. I think one of my biggest things I that I love, and I tell this to everybody all the time repentance is the practice of the righteous. So when you're the more righteous that you realize you are, the more you actually repent.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

I am I'm believing you. I'm walking. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

But the thing is not bad, you know. When we we know repentance is metanoia in Greek, it means to change your mind, realize, hey, I'm thinking wrong, I'm walking wrong. Let me stop, turn around, acknowledge it. I'm sorry, God, or you apologize to other people.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Okay, right, and that's the thing. A lot of times people will apologize to God, but not to the people they've offended.

SPEAKER_05 25:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

So that's not repentance.

SPEAKER_05 25:36

No.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Okay. So then you repent, you turn, and then you walk in the other direction, and then what happens? The Lord, He rewards your obedience with a new layer of renewed mind.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Which brings more repentance.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Bingo. It's constant. Yes. So the more my mind is renewed, the more I repent from what I thought I knew.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Exactly. And the more, and the more you're like, oh Jesus. Like I've I've been so enamored with Holy Spirit lately because I'm like, I I can't, I don't even understand how people live the life of Jesus without his spirit. Well, I mean, you can't. Yeah. But like it's it's like you start to see how you've tried, you know? Yeah. And so again, it's just, oh, okay, well, every new, every, every morning, his mercies are new. Meaning every morning there's an invitation to walking in his spirit. Absolutely. Because his spirit is mercy.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

You know.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Every day.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

And we need it.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Oh yeah. Because, you know, thank God. Because I can tell you, if we're left to our own devices, we're screwed. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yes, absolutely. I would have burned everything down. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Look, I can tell you, look, you know my backstory. I still have my old nature buried. My old nature's dead.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

But every now and then it wants to resurrect. Okay. And though so what happens is people don't realize I can when I get in my self-focus, I'm extremely hard on myself. Probably harder than most people. I can I can't that discipline thing. Oh yeah. Now I've never really had, I've always been fairly disciplined.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

But when I get disciplined, I used to cuss myself out.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Right. Okay. Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

And I would call myself names.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

I get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

And you know, not that that wasn't right, but but now when I'm walking with Jesus, and the more I get to know him, girl, let me tell you, as I read the Bible, and it's it's like this whole thing's illuminating to me that you cannot do anything for the Lord unless he does it through you and with him.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

And so I mean, we cannot love without God loving us. We cannot have faith without him giving us faith. It takes God to love God, it takes God to give faith, it takes God to give even it's the gifts, it's the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It's his gifts, it's his, it's his fruit.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

So you can't change yourself. I mean, my gosh, how many people we've been trying to change ourselves?

SPEAKER_02 28:13

And it hasn't worked yet, have it?

SPEAKER_00 28:15

No, formulas do not change yourself. You know, the carnal mind loves formulas.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

And because the thing is, our we love, give me point A, point B, point C. And I get that there's a level of teaching that we have to flow in, but sometimes the deeper revelation of God comes through what we call divine mystery. Divine mystery is what Proverbs 25, verse 2 says. It's the glory of God to conceal the matter, but it's the glory of a king to search it out. So God always, it's his glory that he's hiding something. What happens if when we're walking our life, we feel like God's hidden. We feel like it's not working. No, that's the sweet spot.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

I've been in there because, like, what Lord, why am I here in West Virginia? Okay, okay. So, but the thing is, when it doesn't seem like things are happening, that's the sweet spot. That's it.

SPEAKER_05 29:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

He's the His glory is hidden. So then what happens? It takes the glory of a king to search it out. Now, the king, the reason they knew it was a king is because kings wore crowns. Right. And so a crown is your mind, your renewed mind. So the more our mind thinks from above that by choice, it's not something that you, ooh, I gotta think from above. I gotta think, gotta think. No, it's it's all direction.

SPEAKER_05 29:40

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

So to and here's the cool thing that, and I'm sure you know this already, the Lord spoke this to me. He says, Scott, the fastest way to get in the spirit is to decide.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Oh, that's it. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

The moment you say, All right, I'm in the spirit. I'm in the spirit.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

There's nothing else.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

That messes with people's theology.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

That that's so good. But but if you that's biblical, because a an an what is it, a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways. All his ways. So I mean that double-minded is is am I or or am I not? Yeah. Like am I am I following the Lord

Fathers, Correction, And Insecurity

SPEAKER_02 30:15

or is there something like that will be a good thing? Is that the Lord or is that me? Is that the Lord?

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Is that me?

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Well, and what we've got to understand is the oneness, right? That's the the unity of your spirit, man, and Holy Spirit. And so it's gonna, it's gonna be you too.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

You know, and like we're trying to make sure it's God, and God's like, I'm in you.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

And so like we don't trust that he's gonna steer and navigate us, though. We want to know before we do. And that's why you have so many people who are not leaders, who are who are called to be leaders, right? You got so many people who are just paralyzed and they're not fulfilling the call of God on their life because they're in fear that they're gonna get it wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

I sp I recently, actually it was a while back, I spoke to somebody that they told me this story that they felt the Lord called them to join this ministry. And they joined it. And a week later, a week later, they left it. Oh wow and so I said, Why did you leave? Because I didn't feel like I was ready. You didn't, huh? Well, I got scared. And I said, So, but you were you but you you said the Lord called you to join it. Well, yeah, I thought he did. And the moment they he they joined, they all of a sudden, uh started thinking.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

And how many times have we sabotaged our own life?

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Oh, you know, I mean, you know me personally, so you know I've done it.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Right, we well we that's right. Well most people have, right? Yeah, and so when when you sabotage something, self-sabotage, it's like you do your very best to stop the progress you've made and cause your reputation to be burned.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Like, why why do you think people do that?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

It's flesh. It's the it's they're insecure.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

It's it's fear then.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

It's fear, it's all fear, it's flesh, it's self-focus, right? So think about this, Gina. So insecurity is you're insecure. That means you're in your own security.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

So you're in your own fleshly security. Now think about it. Our flesh is nothing. Okay. Now you're natural, you got natural gifts, natural talents, but that is actually supposed to be a gift to God. But if I get into insecurity, what will happen? I'll give you an example. If I'm insecure, I'm I'll be like, oh, why isn't Brad calling me? My mentor. Why isn't he checking on me? Right. Oh my gosh, am I doing something wrong? Yeah. I mean, oh my gosh. And then all of a sudden, the more I think about that, the more self-focused I become. And then when I become self-focused, I actually it causes this rise of emotions to come up. And then when I look at people, I'm mad.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Well, and and and then you're you're tempted to even accuse your mentor of not caring.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Right.

unknown 33:10

Right?

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Oh, I can't tell you how many times people accuse me.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

I know, I know, because God don't care. You're not holding my hand enough. You're not petting me on my head.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

We're in 34 states. Do you think I have time to call everybody everybody? No, I don't.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

And like you're you're grown. Like we grown people, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

And that's the thing. And even in my situation, a leader with leader, a leader of influence. So there's levels of leadership. Okay. You got people that lead children, people that lead animals, people that lead a home, and then you've got leaders of businesses, you got leaders of government, then you got leaders of ministries or churches and ministries. Every single one of those levels of leaders did not just arrive there. And that's the thing. You don't just arrive at the top of the mountain.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

No.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

No. There's a process. So when I see a leader fall, I'm not out there criticizing them.

unknown 34:08

No.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Because I realize they could not have that position unless God gave them that.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

And so then you're coming against God's anointed when you come against the leader. Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

I believe they should have accountability, like we all do. And that's the beauty of having a board of directors or overseers. This is like like with me, 420, we have a board of directors. Bless we got, I got Brad McClennon. Oh yeah. I mean, trust me, he corrects me.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Well, and I mean, you know, I've I've seen you guys submit to to you know authority over you. And so which gives me more understanding of even submitting to the authority of you guys, you know, it it because it's it's all everybody it says that we're supposed to submit to one another, but I feel like that that gets twisted, and and then you have people who are sheep who are called to be sheep for that season, right? It's like Elisha trying to to teach Elijah something.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Like it's it's it's out of order.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Yeah, it's totally out of order. So you can't have authority unless you're under authority.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

So people then you'll have somebody say, Wow, Jesus is my authority. I'm under Jesus. Yes, you're under Jesus, but the Jesus honors authority.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

He did it when he walked the earth.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Absolutely. He submitted to his mom and dad. People don't realize that. But think about that. That's a great, great transition here because people talk about the favor of God. Favor grows just like leadership grows. So Jesus was 12 years old. He left his mom and dad, the whole caravan, went into the temple and started talking to all of the leaders of the synagogue and the Pharisees. And he's explaining to them. And then he's missing for three days. So Mary and Joseph, the whole caravan, are going back to Nazareth and they're like, Oh, where's my 12-year-old? Where's my sixth grader? He's in sixth grade, like sixth grade, right?

SPEAKER_04 36:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Oh, we need to go back. So then they have to go back another three days. So he's missing for a week.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

People don't realize that. Jesus is 12 years old. He's missing for almost a whole week. So he's but he's there in Jerusalem and he's sleeping at the temple. He's eating there. And he they finally pull up, and Mary comes up and rebukes them. How have you? How dare you do this to me and your father?

SPEAKER_03 36:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

And the Bible says, uh, through the words, I must be about my father's business. The next thing you know, the Bible says that Jesus submitted to his mother and father. And then it says, He grew in the favor of God and man. He could not grow in favor of God and man without submitting. Without submitting.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Well, and you even see that, you know, with the the wedding feast in Canaan where she asked him to help with the because they ran out of wine, and he says, Well, what do you want me to do about that?

SPEAKER_04 37:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

But but you see him still submit to her in in that kind of a in in that I guess in that miracle.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

You know?

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Absolutely. So I mean, when you think about that, submission to somebody else is basically you do not you're not saying that I'm the main boss.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

No. Because, you know, because I want to say this because, you know, it burns me up. But um, you know, just as someone who is under your leadership, I'm submitted to God. Right. And God gave me to you and to Marcy. And I know that, you know. And if I'm if I were to cut and run, then I would be in rebellion. Right. That has nothing to do with how good of a leader you are. Right. It has everything to do with I know that the Lord has called me to walk with you guys, to be under that submission. And people, people, I feel like get that so off and so wrong because they're like they cut and run if anytime a leader hurts their feelings. You know? You remember that time that you called me out?

SPEAKER_00 38:23

I did.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

You remember that time you made me you made me manifest and I walked in out of the room and like you remember?

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Oh yeah. How many, how many was that? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

This happened a couple times.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah, so but when you think about it, so so a leader is called to trigger people.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Because I needed it. And it wasn't until after, because I mean that like the one time I'm thinking about, I it took me a couple of days. And I was with the Lord, and I was like, why'd he do that? I'm like, you know, you know that he knows that he triggered me on purpose. And and it's so funny because the Lord really showed me about how how backwards that thinking is, and how what we want to do is we want to align with people that make us feel good. But if you really want freedom, you're gonna have to allow yourself to be triggered.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Like again, the leaders are there to confront. It's not just about rainbows and sunshine. It's about it's about, hey, like this, it's time. It's time for you to let go of this thing that you've been wallowing in. Come on. And it's time to step into the truth of who you are in that level.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

That's it. You know, you know, so being triggered. So let's let's unpack that for the people so they know what this.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

So didn't mean to go there.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

No, no, but if it's true, but so the thing is I trigger people sometimes knowingly.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

And sometimes unknowingly.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Well, and I mean, like, I feel like that we're pretty close. So there's some freedom there.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

I knew. So, so think about this. Jesus said, He says in Luke chapter 4, the spirit of the Lord is upon me, the heal of brokenhearted. But one is one of the things he said, I came to set at liberty those who are bruised. And a bruise only hurts when it's touched. Okay. So what happens, he says, I'm going to set you at liberty from your bruise, but the way that you get healed from your bruise

Authority Comes Through Submission

SPEAKER_00 40:25

is it has to be touched. Exactly. And so what takes place is a leader who loves you, who speaks the word, will intentionally and unintentionally, by the Holy Ghost, say something that provokes that spot. And what it does, it instantly triggers that person to get aggravated or get mad.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

But the thing is, you can't get freedom from it unless you manifest.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

That's right. You gotta bring it to the surface.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

You got to, right. And that's as we just went like, oh, you better not manifest, or you bet, you know, you better not do it.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

That's you're trying to control things. Exactly. Like it's not even real. Like you're just being fake at that point because it's not under control. And and like me walking away was me trying to keep it under control.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

And I told him that. I was like, I had to walk away because I was so mad, you know. But but I mean that like I'm I'm just full of it because like that was me trying to keep, and I like I'm just being open and real. But that was me trying to keep that tear.

SPEAKER_04 41:21

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

You know, because I wanted to keep that way of thinking, and the it took me, like I said, I I think maybe two days before before I really had the revelation with the Lord, and and where and I do believe like I had a measure of healing with that, a pretty good measure of healing with that, because I finally got to the place because I I didn't cut it off, even though I even though I did.

SPEAKER_04 41:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

Because I kept that open dialogue with the Lord, the Lord corrected me so that I could then come back and apologize to him. Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

And you know, it's so good. So the thing about it, it's like when you got triggered, that was the will of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

All right, but do the carnal mind wants to cut and run. And how many times have you seen God trigger somebody in a ministry or a business and they get offended? Oh, yeah, and in themselves and don't realize the Lord placed them in that place, so they leave. You know, I almost left Brad.

SPEAKER_04 42:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

Yeah, it's like because he he pissed me off. I mean, okay, he really did.

SPEAKER_04 42:27

He's good at that too.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Oh, he is. Oh, he really did. He made me so stinking mad, and uh, and then finally we all talked, right, and and uh it got dealt with. Yeah, but the thing is, I was at this place, I was like, I don't want this no more, right? But the thing is, I knew in my heart that if I did, I was wrong.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Right. Well, and and I knew that Scott loved me, right? You know, and you knew that Brad loved you, you know, and and that, God, that's such a a big deal, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:55

You know, I mean, there's so many people that that have walked away from relationship with us that some some were supposed to leave. Yeah, but there were some that were supposed to stay. I know, and that's that's the thing that it used to really wreck me, used to grieve me because I'm like, Lord, what could I have done different? And he said nothing. He said nothing. It's part of their process. Now he'll use I I'm still praying that God will use their process. Right. And I also believe that God will grant repentance to the humble.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

And you'll see, you'll see people come back and reconnect from some like like there might be some people that are listening or watching to this podcast that they realize they have some conviction, you know what? I prematurely left that partnership, or I prematurely left that job, or I prematurely left that ministry because I got in my self focus.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

And and then but they and and if they stay there, they're not repenting. And they can't have the fullness of what God had for them.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

No. Well, and and you know, that's one thing that I've learned too, you know, and I mean Romans. Romans 12, 1 and 2 talk about it. Like there is a good and acceptable and a perfect will of God. And I, for one, am too old to settle. Like, you know, we've come too far to just again stay on the other side of the Jordan. Like, like we've got to let go of pride. And it's pride that will keep us from crossing over. Every single time. It's pride that'll keep you from repentance. It's pride that'll keep those tears inside. Because you know, I don't need no nobody. That was my that was my fault. Right. I don't need nobody. But like it's it's pride that'll keep us from following the Lord. And you can thwart God's plan for your life.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Yes, you can.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

And that people don't seem to want to recognize that.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

They don't, they don't, you know, it's it again because when you get self-focused, it's all about you.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

And see, your talent is your gift from God, but what you do with it is your gift to Him. And one of the most humble people I've ever met in my life, when I say humble, they oozed humility. And spent a week with this person. It was Reinhard Bonkey.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

What an amazing man of God. I mean, just oozed humility. He was so humble. And people wanted to carry his Bible. He wouldn't let anybody carry his Bible.

SPEAKER_05 45:20

Bless them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

I sat down and had lunch with him. Yeah. But just a humble man. And as I was contemplating that, I'm like, my gosh, humility is the door to promotion. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

So God opposes the proud.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

And gives grace.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

But he gives grace to the humble.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

Well, and that and that door, that like that's more Holy Spirit. Right. Like the grace is more of his spirit. You know?

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

Like that's the door.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

So it's the door that opens up and opportunity knocks.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

So if if the Lord's Revelation 3.20 says, Behold, I stand at the door and knock. He who hears and opens it, I'll come in and sup. The thing is, most people do not hear the knock. The reason they don't hear the Lord knocking is because they're hearing their own stuff.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

Right. You're too self-focused.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Yeah, you're self-focused, and when you're self-focused, you're you become a reactionary person and not a responding person.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

That's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

So leadership in its essence is about influence. And you cannot, this is one thought I really want everybody to catch is you can teach what you know, but you only duplicate who you are. And duplication is discipleship.

SPEAKER_05 46:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

True discipleship is found in duplication. Discipleship is not just me telling you what I what I know.

SPEAKER_04 46:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Because that's not that's not going to help change somebody. Discipleship is when you walk with people and they have to see your discipline.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Disciple comes from discipline. So if I'm a disciplined person, then it should inspire discipline others. Which I started this big health kick. How many people have you seen get on this bad way?

SPEAKER_01 47:01

I'm on it.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Yeah, you're on it. I mean, we're all getting fit. We're all getting fit, but the thing is, somebody had to start.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

You know?

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

And so if I'm going to be a leader of influence in the Christian faith, by God, I have to do it first.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

And I think what sometimes happens, Gina, is people want to be called a leader so bad. They want the title of a leader. They want the title, but they you can't truly step into the to the levels of leadership until you are walking it out personally.

SPEAKER_05 47:36

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

So there's levels of leadership. So I mean, think when I was a children's pastor, you know, there was no way when I was a children's pastor I could be doing what I'm doing now. I just I just couldn't do it. It's just it's impossible. But the Lord used those levels. And I I did lead, I led little kids.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

I led little kids. And as I grew, God opened my territory.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

But what you have to be faithful in what you're given.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

And so if leadership's about influence, the word that you preach, you should not preach that revelation, that word, and until it's first made flesh in you.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

I was had a conversation with somebody recently, and they were asking me about how do you teach? Like, can you teach me how to teach? Well, I said, Well, I said, first and foremost, you have no business teaching something, you're not walking out.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

And what happens, we have a lot of people preaching things and teaching things, they're not walking out.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Well, a lot of people get a word from the Lord for themselves, and instead of taking it in for themselves, they try to release it to everybody else. Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

It'd be like saying, Hey, I'll I'm gonna teach y'all about the gift of prophecy tonight, but yet they never prophesy.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Okay. I'm gonna teach you about the Holy Spirit and the nine gifts of the Spirit, and you do not operate in any of them.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Right. That's you have no authority.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

No authority. It's just intellectual.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Again, it's good information. Right. It's in for it's informative, but it's not transformative.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

No. And gosh, can't you can't you feel it when someone has that revelation? They're when they're actually walking in it. Can't you feel the difference?

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Just like well, you're a worship leader. And you've seen this. Have you seen a worship leader has talent, very talented, can sing, can play, right? But they never spent that private time worshiping with God.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

And it's so obvious.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Oh yeah. It's it may sound okay, but there's no Jesus on it.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

No, there's no spirit.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

It's the same thing with leadership.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Yeah, that's that's good.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

So a worship leader, you're leading people. And so you have to, word has to be made flesh to dwell among you. And that's the process that people don't like.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

Right. Because you gotta walk it out.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

It has to be made flesh.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

There's a wrestling.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Yes, oh my gosh. I think it was Marcy was talking about the wrestling is coming to the end of yourself.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah. You know, and I think this is a good place for me to say this thing too. You know, my favorite, you're gonna don't punch me. My favorite, though, times that I've seen you like minister, all that kind of stuff, has been when you have been broken because it's so powerful and it's so anointed and it's so raw, and it's just like this unfiltered, like spirit coming, you know, Holy Spirit coming through you, and oh, and just always. And so I have this like this, you know, my heart for you is like, oh no. But then the other side of that is oh, we about to get an upgrade. Yeah, we're about to see even more glory

Discipline, Repentance, And Walking It Out

SPEAKER_02 50:45

come through this thing. Yeah, you know, yeah, but it's it's it's so funny how that like during your sabbatical and all that kind of stuff. Oh my god, like that was that's so intense. It's been intense since then. Like I don't think it's let up very much, but but like every time you would go through, you know, all of that, those individual things, like your teaching was so anointed, you know, and I think it's just that crushing. But see, that's the part though that the leaders don't want to that's right, do because when you're going through it, your the carnal mind will say, What did I do wrong to deserve it?

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Yeah, and so the crushing comes from being misunderstood, crushing comes from being betrayed, crushing comes from people attacking your character, or it comes from people that are jealous of you. And when it happens, it only and the thing is only real betrayal, real betrayal only happens when you love that person.

SPEAKER_05 51:45

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

If you don't, if you don't have a relationship with them, that's not betrayal. That's the truth. Yeah, yeah. I mean, people can say things about me all day long that I don't know. I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

But if you've invested in that person, if you love that person, when they betray you, most times they don't think they're betraying.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

They they really think that they're doing right. God help us. But they don't they don't realize what it does. Yeah, and so this is why when I see leaders now, my God, I have a heart for leaders, I have a heart for pastors, I have a heart for entrepreneurs, I have a heart for people that are plowing because what happens, they're surrounded by armchair quarterbacks.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

That's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

And when when I work, I never forget, Janet. When I worked in the NFL, when I worked in the National Football League, Carolina Panthers, you know, they were pretty decent back then. But what happened, I would go to the games, I would go to work the next day, and I'd meet all these people, and all these people who weren't on the field, who some of them weren't even at the game, would would say what they the coach should have done. They would say, they should have done this, they should have done that. And finally, one day I said, You ain't never played. You weren't on the field.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

And so this the armchair quarterback of everybody thinks they're experts. Look, I'm the first to tell you I'm not an expert in leadership. I'm in, I am not an expert by any means. What I've learned now, I've actually had to unlearn more that I've learned. That's my my learning is my unlearning. And so I'm realizing now when I see somebody that's has a measure of authority, you've got to bless that person. You've got to, like, even the Lord honor those in authority. Even Paul says, pray for the king. Yeah, he's talking about Nero, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

Yeah. Who was who ended up burning? I think maybe even while Paul was there, like he was burning people.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Yes. Pray for him. Yes, bless him.

unknown 53:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

And and then he then he goes on to say, have a great reputation among society. I mean, people don't realize this. It's like and so I'd I'd like to read this scripture because I think this is pretty pertinent, because leadership is something that everybody should aspire to. Okay. That just means we're you're called to influence people. Now, I'm going to be reading from the amplified version in 1 Timothy chapter 3. Now, the reason it's called amplified because it's louder. Okay? So it's louder. So this is talking about the apostle Paul is speaking to Timothy, but he's talking about overseers, leaders, and deacons. So he says this, starting with chapter 3, he says, this is a faithful and trustworthy saying. So it's faithful and trustworthy. If any man or woman seeks the office of an overseer, a bishop, superintendent, or elder, he or she desires an excellent task. Okay, so that means you desire something excellent. Then he goes on to say, now, an overseer must, number one, be blameless. Well, praise the Lord right there. Okay. Be blameless, and there we go, beyond reproach. Now, that right there can really preach. So, because people have different understandings of what that means. The husband of one wife, self-controlled. Wow, there we go. We can just eliminate a lot right there. Okay, so self-control is the first thing that Paul really hits. If you're going to be a leader, you better have self-government.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

Right, because if you can't lead yourself, you can't lead nobody.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

Right. This is why the Lord told me, He says, if you don't get your father, your body, how can you lead somebody? You've got to get some self-control. Then he goes, sensible. Well, you think somebody's sensible? If they're sensible, they have common sense. Okay. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

They're not like in the clouds somewhere. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Not so what's the old saying? Hyper-spiritual, right?

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

So they have to be sensible, then respectable. So somebody who's respectable, they give respect.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:59

They don't demand it.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

They don't demand it.

SPEAKER_02 56:01

They give it.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

Exactly. And so what happens, even they how they speak.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Come on.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Okay, it's it's not the what you say, it's the how you say it. Okay, don't blame on your personality. It's uh I don't we don't care about that personality stuff. Right. This is about the Holy Ghost living inside of you. Right. Okay. Respectable. Then he goes, hospitable. That's a big one. All right, here we go. Another thing, if you're gonna be a leader, you have to be able to teach.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

So the thing is, don't say you're not a if you want to be a leader. How many times have you met somebody? I'm the leader, I'm the pastor, and you don't teach. You're not a leader.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

No, no.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

You're a poser.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

Right? You have to be able to teach. And then he goes, not addicted to wine, so you can't be addicted to it. Here's another one. Not a bully. What do you think that what do you think that means? In your thought? Not a bully.

SPEAKER_02 56:56

Oh god. Well, for me, I think that means I don't intentionally try to intimidate people and act like I, you know, I'm better and they're lesser than. You know, or or try to to make them do something even outside of time. Like if it if even if I think that that is me trying to control something in their life and push them to do something that that you know I think they should do. Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

You know, one thing I always learned about bullies.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

They're the they're the most insecure ones.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

Oh my god, they're insecure. Yeah. And they're the easiest to beat up.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

Really?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

I know it's kind of a sidetrack, but anybody that's a bully, they uh the reason they're a bully is because they're number one, they're loud.

SPEAKER_05 57:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

Okay. And then they try to usurp their authority on people. But normally what happens, bullies do not, they're not dangerous, they don't fight well. The ones that the ones that can really fight, the quiet ones. All the quiet ones. I mean, they're the ones like when I see a bully, I was like, dude, you ain't nothing. You know, that's like nothing. But that can happen in the, you know, there's a pastor that I was under that used to throw items at his youth pastor in his office, pick him up and throw him across the room. Get mad, get so mad and bully him. And the thing is the guy was terrified of him.

SPEAKER_01 58:18

Oh blah.

SPEAKER_00 58:19

Terrified. I'm like, that was a bully.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

Okay. So not a bully. Oh, here we go. Nor quick tempered. That means you actually respond, you don't react. If you're quick-tempered, you can't be a leader.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

Well, now you'll blow up all the people that you're supposed to be leading.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Exactly, exactly. So I read this and I instantly get convicted.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

Okay. So so if I'm if I when I read this and I see an uh an area that I know there's a weakness, I have to repent.

SPEAKER_05 58:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

Then I get in my in my my my focus with Jesus, and I say, Lord, I can't fix me.

SPEAKER_01 58:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

I you know I've dealing with this issue. And one time I was like, I was dealing with some anger. And I said, Lord, I said, I'm I think I'm dealing with an anger problem. He says, You do not have an anger problem. You have a lack of gentleness problem.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

I know that. You know how I know?

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:11

You've told me that.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

Yeah, that's it. I have. But I can't tell you that until I'm walking it out.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

So what happened? I had to go through that first.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:19

So it's like a leader has to go through the things first before they can lead people to others.

SPEAKER_05 59:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

So you got the leaders take the hit first.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Like that white water rafting trip. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 59:31

That was a physical representation to us of how Scott takes the hit first.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

That's what jacked my back up. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_02 59:41

It's not funny, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

But you know, it's a type and shadow, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:45

It is, though, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

So he says, not a bully, nor quick-tempered and hot-headed. Lord have mercy. Have mercy, Jesus. But gentle and considerate. Now think about it. If if somebody's gentle, what attribute of a leader does that seem like to you? What do you think they would be? They don't grieve the Holy Ghost.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

Well, I think they're slow to speak.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:10

Bingo.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

So the more gentle I am, the more I'm in tune with not grieving the Spirit.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:16

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

So I think it was Bill Johnson that said, when you're aware of the Holy Spirit, imagine a dove being on your shoulder. And if you do not want that dove to fly away, every walk, every step that you take, you'll have the dove in mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

Yeah, you'll be mindful. You'll be mindful.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

So that means you'll walk gently. But if you do everything, ah, that dove's gonna fly off.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

And that's the thing. And the thing is, I've learned this, the dove has flew off quite a few times.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

Same.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

Yeah. So, and that's the thing. You will grow in leadership, and as you grow, you're going to make many mistakes.

Leadership Character And Biblical Standards

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

That's the one thing we want to tell everybody. You're not going to be perfect when as a leader.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

However, you should be growing in it.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:02

If you're not growing in it, then you know you're disqualifying yourself.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:07

There has to be a measure of fruit that's growing. So he says, um, and then he goes, but gentle and considerate, free from the love of money, not greedy for wealth and its inherent power. He says they must manage his own household well, keeping their children under control with all dignity, keeping them respectful and well behave. Oh Lord, have mercy. Wow, come on now. That's uh uh that's something we might have to do a course on because you know that I just I just had an image of kids in church. Oh Lord. I mean it wasn't like that when I was growing up. I mean, we if when I was a little kid, we they didn't have children's church where we know so we had to sit in those pews and just be quiet, be quiet and draw or something like that. But and I remember there was like a grandma of the church. If if if one of the kids started acting up, that grandma would turn around. They had a they had a swatter. They had a swatter, they just pop them. It was a different era, a different, different day.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:14

That's funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

And then he goes on to say, um, for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God? And here's a big one must not be a new convert. That means that there has to be a level of experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:29

Yeah, it's that resume.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

Oh, yeah, you have to have a resume. So the reason why leaders go through the junk they go through is because it's creating a resume for an upgrade. You just can't cut and run. You gotta stay the course, finish it, repent quickly, and learn and transform. Is always be humble. Yeah, own it. Just own it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

I really think that's what the Lord's on right now is our humility. God yes. I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

Lord forgive us all, right? And then he goes on, he must not be a new converted convert so that he will not behave stupidly and become conceited. So let's pop let's park on that first here. How how does if if you appoint somebody that's a new convert? Let's talk about that. They behave stupidly and act conceited. What would a conceited leader act like to you?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

Gosh, haven't we seen that?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:26

Well, I mean, and because especially if you're if you're new, once you get that little, you know, the I've got a thousand thoughts that just exploded in my mind. The Lord showed me recently how every revelation has to be submitted to him. Because every with every revelation, there's this ascension, right? Because you're you're like, you're getting closer to the Lord. And the thing is, is that carnal mind will pop and and every time you'll you'll start to have that or you'll have that temptation to be like, oh, this is a great revelation. And then all of a sudden, you know, you're you're the son of hell, yeah, right? Trying to to ascend yourself above his people, which is actually used ascending yourself above his throne. Does it does that is that making sense? Absolutely. And so, like, with these these newly you know converted leaders, I've seen people get platforms because of their gifting, but they had not learned to steward anything yet. And so, like, they are they're going out hurting people, hurting themselves, and and you know, dishonoring the name of the Lord, right, and they're just oblivious. Yeah, you know, they think that this is how it's supposed to be, right? And they're they're way off course because their heart's not for the people. Right. And their heart's not for the Lord, their heart's for themselves. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:43

You know, so when you so when you hear the word conceited, a lot of people think, oh, they're just they love themselves or in a wrong way, or or they're braggadocious. My thought about somebody who's conceited. My perspective is this if you're conceited, you're more concerned with how you feel than the spirit feels. So it's all about your your self-focus. And so if you're in self-focus, you're in conceit.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:11

And and that's the really the thing. Jesus himself, we know the scripture. I mean, my God, I mean, we could we can quote it, but doing it's a different thing. He says, if you want to follow me, you you've got to, number one, deny yourself. Deny.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:26

Then take up your cross. Now think about this. Take up your cross, take up an instrument of death. Take up something that you actually have to lay out on, something that you have, some something that actually kills your flesh.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:39

Well, that's the people.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

That's why that's why we're called to the people.

unknown 1:05:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

Because that's what they do.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:45

Right, right. So, so if if if a new convert or a new new leader is appointed, conceit will do. I I think it'll look like this. I'm the leader, you better follow.

unknown 1:06:00

Me.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

Don't you know I'm the leader?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

Look, let me tell you what. You shouldn't have to tell people that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:05

No, you shouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

You really shouldn't. And you should be known by your function before your title.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:12

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

And so I I used to, when I was young and dumb, used to tell people I'm the leader. I used to say, Yeah, you know, I'm blessed, I'm a pro I'm a pastor. I don't even think I've ever called myself a prophet.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

You know, I've I've never heard you call yourself a prophet.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

I don't, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:27

I don't know that you think you're a prophet.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:28

I don't look, here's the thing, I don't care what I am.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:31

You know, that's that's the crazy thing. You know, Brad was telling me, he's like, Yeah, you're more apostolic. That's like, yeah, yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

Yeah. I guess that's what I see.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

Yeah, so but the thing is it don't matter.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:40

Well, and you and you have that charisma of the evangelist that just draws people. I guess that apostles do that too, though. Yeah, yeah. And so, I mean the But anyway, that that Yeah, that's a whole different teaching.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

Yeah, but but as far as you can't have influence without investment, and your title does not determine your authority.

unknown 1:07:00

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

Now that's the thing. People let's camp on that for a second.

unknown 1:07:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

Just because you have a title doesn't mean you have authority.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

Authority is revealed in the nature that you express in your walk with Christ. I went and preached at this large mega church a couple years back. I'm myself. I'm just I'm myself. And they usually have about 3,000 people on a Sunday.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

Pretty good sized church. And I'll never forget, I'm in the back room with the people and these crimmed little crimson, the who's who came in there. But the thing is, I spent years working in pro sports with all these athletes, all these millionaires, all these billionaires, and it didn't, I didn't care. I'm not impressed anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

So I'm in there, I'm just being myself, and I'm not starstruck. And I'm right, and and I'm talking to the people, I'm having eye contact, I'm thoughtful, I listen, I'm not trying to correct. Uh many of them were saying things I didn't agree with.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

That's not my place. No, yeah, exactly. I'm not in my place. So all of a sudden the pastor comes up to me and goes, Scott, you carry such authority. You must have been crushed.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:13

I said, Yeah, I've gone through some of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

Yeah. But the thing is, he noted it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

And I didn't have to tell him I had it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:21

And the thing is, now if I don't walk in there, you know, Pastor, uh I am a leader. I've got authority, you better listen to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:29

You better recognize my gift things. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

I don't have to do that. You know? But the thing is, people who are insecure think that they have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:38

And I think what happens, the Lord is getting people to a place of if you really want influence, become like a child. Live in the dangerous wonder of the Lord. So think about this. If you want to follow the Lord, become converted, become like a child, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God unless you become a person who is apt to listen, to learn, and to wonder and experience adventure with God. And the leadership is an amazing thing. It's a hard thing too. It's the higher up you climb on the tree of leadership, the more people are going to stare at your backside that are underneath. And they're going to try and tell you what you're doing wrong. This is why the more I've got to do what I'm doing, I don't go around criticizing leaders anymore. I can't do it. I do I agree with them? No, I don't. But far be it from me. I don't know their process. I don't know that pastor in town. I don't know what he's gone through. All I know is that when I stand before God, he's going to judge me by what I did with the responsibility he gave me. Just like the parable of the talents. Everybody's given a talent.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

And what you do with it determines everything. So leadership's a lot like swimming. You don't learn it by reading the book about it. You learn it by applying it, and you apply it through humility, persistence, consistency, and surrounding yourself with the people that provoke you and trigger you to transform.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

Amen. So before we get off here, because I do feel, you know, we're wrapping up, but I I was feeling some some frustration. Um like, can you speak to frustration? I don't I guess there's kind of twofold. So one, which I think you did just cover a bit, is the frustration of the leader, but also the frustration of the one who thinks that they're a leader and is not being recognized. Oh, that's a big

Frustration, Recognition, And Divine Opportunities

SPEAKER_02 1:10:40

one.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:40

Well, I went through that because for years I would go to, I was I'd be serving in a church, naturally gifted. I was more gifted than the ones they were promoting. And I would always say, Why are why am I not being recognized? And it frustrated me. But this is where the Lord spoke to me. He said, Scott, champions are not made in the ring, they're only recognized there. Champions or leaders are made in the daily process, and timing belongs to God, preparation belongs to man. If I would have stepped into that role prematurely, I would not be where I am today. So it took me a process of dealing with the frustration, but the when you front when you're frustrated, you have to understand you either trust God or you don't. Because promotion always comes from God.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:36

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

You all all we're called to do is walk with the Lord and then recognize the opportunities that He presents us. So that's the thing. A lot of people they stay in their frustration and they miss the divine opportunities. Sometimes that divine opportunity is like, hey, get up, go to the store.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:57

That's good, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:58

And so when you obey, because I I'm like you you heard I I own a business, a very successful business in North Carolina. I trained a personal trainer, sports massage therapist, self-defense instructor, self-employed, doing really good. At a period of time, I was making about 10 grand a month, man. I was pulling some money back in the day. Now this was in 2006.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:20

Right. Very good.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

10,000 a month, 2006 is a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

But the thing is, most people don't realize what happened. The reason I got that, I was going to a church and I was considered one of their um Sunday school teachers. All right. And but I had preached before, but they they never gave me a pulpit. Before I left, they gave me a couple of Wednesday nights and stuff like that. But I'm I'm going to work, I'm at a chiropractor's office one one day, and this guy comes in and invites me to the Red Pig Cafe in Concord. It's gone now. But they were having a NFL player that was going to speak that night. I had worked a long day. I left the business and I went home and I was exhausted. I still had my scrubs on. Soon as I pulled up to go into the house, the Lord spoke to me. He says, You better go there now. There's an opportunity for you. Now, so I walked inside. I quickly put on a change of clothes, and I told my family, I'm I'm heading out. I have to go. Now, my flesh did not want to.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

The opportunity was given to me at work by a local politician who I was working on.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:45

Now, I was exhausted. I was physically tired. But all of a sudden, the Lord said, You need to go. I go and I meet this NFL player. And when I meet the NFL player, next thing you know, I become his therapist, and he starts spreading the word among the team, and I start working on all these players, and through these players, I end up getting connected to NASCAR. Had I not taken the invitation of the opportunity, I would have stayed in the frustration I was in.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:17

Oh, that's so good. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:18

But the thing is, when you're frustrated, it's hard to recognize the divine opportunity. Because when I was frustrated, I was expecting an opportunity from the church.

unknown 1:14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:26

Oh, give me a platform, give me a pulpit, give me, give me, give me some programs, give me something. And what happened, the opportunity from the Lord came in something as easy as, hey, come to this meeting, you got to prove somebody speaking.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:39

And the thing is, I had to do the opportunity. So frustration is a signal that you need an upgrade. Frustration is a signal that there's a place in you that has not submitted to the process of God. So anytime I feel frustrated, I realize, okay, I'm not in submission to the Spirit right now. And I've had lots of opportunity to be frustrated. Okay, because it's not going according to my plan.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:05

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:07

So if you are one of these people that are thinking that you're being looked over, you're not being recognized, you have to understand sometimes it's because you're not ready.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:18

That's good, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:19

And you're missing divine opportunities. But I will tell you, anytime that God promotes you, he always gives you a people that he promotes you to be with. So parking lot prophets, Lone Rangers that want to be famous on social media, you might get a measure of influence, but it's not going to make transformation at all until you get in real authentic relationship so that so that you can flesh look flesh the flesh, proximity matters, and you can provoke one another to love each other by triggering each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:54

Yes. Yes. That's so good. Well, I think

Final Thoughts And Sign Off

SPEAKER_02 1:15:58

that that's that's a good place to stop. I don't even, gosh, we've been talking about this for over an hour. Yeah. Well, I for my part, thank you for for coming on and and speaking to this. It really, you know, I I just feel the Lord so much on leadership right now on everything that we've been talking about. And so I really appreciate you taking the time to come and speak to everybody here. And so I am signing off for Divine Life, and we will see you again next time.